Unlocking the Power of Flow in Work and Life with Joseph Rodrigues

Introduction: The Flow State Advantage

Have you ever been so immersed in a task that time seemed to disappear? That feeling of complete engagement and effortless action is called flow. Athletes, musicians, and high-performing professionals all talk about getting “in the zone,” where everything feels almost automatic. But what if we could tap into this state at will, even in challenging situations?

In a recent interview, I had the pleasure of sitting down with my mentor, Joseph Rodrigues, a business coach and expert on flow-based living. His insights have transformed my business and life, and in this blog, I’m excited to share how you, too, can harness the power of flow for better productivity, stress management, and overall success.

Continue reading the blog post below the video and podcast episode….

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Meet Joseph Rodrigues

Joseph Rodrigues has an impressive background, starting with a decade in the corporate IT world before launching his own IT services business in Toronto. After scaling that business to success, he pivoted into entrepreneurship education, starting a YouTube channel in 2013 that has since attracted a massive following. Through his mastermind program, he teaches entrepreneurs and professionals how to integrate flow into their work and personal lives.

Joseph’s expertise on flow doesn’t come just from theory—it comes from experience. Whether he’s snowboarding (which he playfully calls “flow boarding”), making YouTube videos, or coaching clients, he’s always tuning into the flow state.

Understanding Flow: Where Challenge Meets Skill

Flow happens when challenge meets skill. This concept, introduced by psychologist Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, explains that we enter flow when our skills are sufficiently developed to meet a challenge but still stretch us to grow.

However, Joseph takes this a step further: We don’t have to wait for ideal conditions to access flow. We can relax into it, even in difficult situations.

For example, if you’re learning to snowboard, overthinking can take you out of flow. But if you relax, trust your body, and breathe through the challenge, flow emerges naturally. The same principle applies in workplace settings. Whether you’re giving a presentation, handling a tough conversation, or managing a high-pressure project, relaxing into the moment allows you to perform at your best.

Finding Flow in Everyday Work Situations

One of the most exciting takeaways from our conversation was how flow can be applied to everyday work tasks. Here are some practical ways Joseph suggests cultivating flow in different scenarios:

Difficult Conversations

Ever dreaded a tough conversation with a team member, client, or boss? Flow can transform how you handle it. Instead of labeling it as “difficult,” Joseph suggests:

• Releasing any tension or fear before the conversation.

• Accepting yourself and the other person as they are.

• Staying present in the moment rather than forcing an outcome.

By practicing emotional regulation and active listening, conversations flow more smoothly, leading to better outcomes for everyone involved.

Burnout Prevention and Stress Management

Many people don’t even realize they’re in burnout until it’s too late. Joseph emphasizes that holding onto tension throughout the day contributes to burnout. Flow offers a way out.

Practical tips to prevent burnout using flow:

• Identify flow enhancers (tasks that energize you) and flow restrictors (tasks that drain you).

• Adjust your workday to focus more on flow-enhancing activities.

• Delegate or modify tasks that feel like significant flow restrictors.

• Build in regular emotional release practices, such as deep breathing or movement breaks, to avoid accumulating stress.

Morning Routines to Set the Tone for Flow

Joseph shared his morning routine, designed to get him into flow from the moment he wakes up:

• Reading a statement of intention.

• Drinking a tall glass of water.

• Hitting the gym (movement is a powerful flow activator!).

• Eating a nourishing breakfast.

• Taking a shower and meditating before starting work.

By beginning the day in a flow state, you’re setting yourself up for success and increasing the likelihood of staying in flow throughout the day.

Emotional Release: The Key to Staying in Flow

Another powerful insight Joseph shared was the importance of emotional release. Many people suppress emotions, but doing so creates internal resistance that blocks flow. Instead, we can allow emotions to arise and naturally dissolve.

For instance, if you wake up feeling dread about a long day ahead, instead of fighting it, recognize it, breathe through it, and replace it with a more empowering thought like:

“Something great is going to happen today.”

The more we practice emotional release, the more we train ourselves to stay in flow, even when faced with challenges.

The Autotelic Mindset: Bliss for No Reason

A fascinating concept Joseph introduced was the autotelic experience—a state where you feel bliss for “no reason.” Over time, the more you practice flow, the more you start experiencing joy in the simplest moments—brushing your teeth, walking, or even working on routine tasks. This is because your brain begins releasing anandamide, also known as the bliss molecule.

By prioritizing flow, we detach from the outcome and simply enjoy the process. This mindset shift not only enhances performance but also makes work and life significantly more enjoyable.

Flow in Leadership and Workplace Culture

One of the most exciting applications of flow is in leadership and corporate culture. When leaders embody flow-based principles, workplaces become more innovative, engaging, and productive. Here’s how:

• Approachable Leadership: Leaders who practice flow create open environments where employees feel heard and valued.

• Less Bureaucracy, More Innovation: Companies that prioritize flow remove unnecessary restrictions and empower employees to share ideas freely.

• Higher Engagement and Productivity: Flow reduces stress and increases creativity, leading to higher performance and job satisfaction.

As I reflected on my past corporate experiences, I realized how much a lack of flow restrictors transformed the environment. Companies that encourage flow see better results, happier employees, and more sustainable success.

Final Thoughts: Making Flow a Priority

Joseph’s biggest lesson is that flow is a skill we can cultivate. Whether through hobbies, workplace strategies, or emotional release, flow is accessible to everyone. By integrating these principles into your life and work, you’ll unlock greater ease, creativity, and success.

Key Takeaways:

• Flow happens where challenge meets skill—and we can relax into it.

• Identifying flow enhancers and restrictors can improve work performance and reduce burnout.

• Emotional release is essential for staying in flow.

• Morning routines can set the tone for a flow-based day.

• Flow in leadership leads to greater innovation and engagement.

If you’re interested in learning more from Joseph, check out his YouTube channel and mastermind program at Online Training for Entrepreneurs.

How are you going to integrate flow into your life and work? Let me know!

#FlowState #PeakPerformance #StressManagement #CorporateWellness #EmotionalIntelligence #LeadershipDevelopment

About the Author:

Kathie Owen, Corporate Wellness Coach and Consultant

Kathie Owen is a corporate wellness coach and consultant with over two decades of experience in fitness, wellness, and leadership. She is the founder of Top Workplace Wellness, a program designed to help organizations boost employee engagement, prevent burnout, and cultivate a thriving workplace culture.

With a background in psychology and a passion for applying sports psychology principles, Kathie empowers teams and individuals to overcome challenges, embrace adaptability, and achieve peak performance.

Read More Articles from Kathie

Transcript from today’s episode:

Kathie: 0:00

Welcome back to Kathie's Coaching Podcast and my YouTube channel today. I am super excited to introduce to you my coach and my mentor who runs a mastermind that I've been a part of for a year now and I want to talk about how he coaches on flow and how we can build that into the workplace and have a more productive day and be just in the zone as I talk about in sports psychology. I want to introduce you to my mentor, and that is Joseph Rodrigues he's got a huge YouTube channel that I listen to all the time. And I'll let Joseph tell you a little bit about himself and what we're going to talk about today. So Joseph, here we go.

Joseph: 0:51

Thank you. Thank you very much, Kathie for inviting me to this conversation. A lot of fun talking about one of my favorite topics. I appreciate everything that you do as well and what you share. So excited to explore with you a little bit about me. I did 10 years in corporate, so I have a lot of experience in that area. And then it was specifically in corporate it, I left in 2009 and started an IT business providing IT services for offices in Toronto and IT related technologies. That grew to success from 2009 to 13. 2013 was when I started the YouTube channel, which you met me through. I also started a consulting practice, so both of them ended up growing. So that's me in a nutshell. And I have a lot of fun and I enjoy snowboarding. And travel and conversations like this.

Kathie: 1:45

Awesome. I love it. So because Joseph has had experience in corporate, he understands the nuances that go in in there. And I really love his teachings on flow and getting in the zone. So I kind of want to go to that. And it's funny because in one of our, uh, our mastermind meetings, He would talk about his snowboarding and call it flow boarding. And so, because I'm also a big proponent on coaching people to find hobbies to help them find flow. And that is one of Joseph's hobbies is snowboarding or flow boarding. So maybe that would be a great introduction to today's episode.

Joseph: 2:33

Yes, happy to explore. So I call that a flow enhancing activity, as in that's where I experienced flow. I also experienced flow making the videos. I experienced flow in these conversations. We're able to find flow even in challenging situation, day to day activities on the job, with tasks, with projects. And these kinds of flow enhancing activities is where we can experience flow, doing something that we love to do there. And then also learn from the experience of how we access the flow, how we can transmute what sometimes I refer to as a flow restrictor into a flow enhancer, have a lot of fun, emotional regulation, body is engaged, emotions are engaged harmoniously, clear thinking. Yes. What would you like to explore?

Kathie: 3:24

Wow, flow can change your life tremendously. And Joseph is a great teacher of flow. And honestly, when I listen to him talk, I get into flow just. listening to him talk. I like how how he mentioned and I really want to hone in on this is even during challenging situations, you can find flow. So we started with the hobby of finding flow through a hobby. But once you know what that feels like, you can apply that to a challenging situation and we're always confronted with challenging situations where, and I've talked about this before on my channel, how flow is where challenge meets skill. And so I kind of want to touch on that, how we find flow in a challenging situation.

Joseph: 4:16

Yes. So a great point that you brought up where challenge meets skill, there is an access point into the flow. Another way of saying it is Where there is a challenge, we can relax into the flow and then access skill or cultivate skill. So with respect to snowboarding, for example, we find if we're overthinking, trying to compare ourselves with the other snowboarders, or put added pressure on ourselves. It might not be experienced as flow. It might be experienced as something we call stressful or force based. So being aware of that point is actually the access point into the flow. So in that moment, we can relax. So I may say something like, that's okay. Or relax the body, breathing. So essentially, you can relax into the flow in a particular opportunity. Or, let's say with snowboarding, if it's experienced as challenging, you relax more and more and more so as you do your runs. And then you're in the flow and the same can be done, let's say, in conversations and tasks and initiatives, we can relax into the flow. Now, as we relax the flow, we actually allow ourselves to cultivate the skill a lot easier. We find that we cultivate the skill in this regard snowboarding easier. faster, let's say, but it's not a rush. It's more, it just happens to be that way. The same can be said about making YouTube videos, conversations, sales, presentations, day to day initiatives. I did this with learning IT when I was in my corporate career.

Kathie: 5:59

Yes, for sure. So, the access point into the flow is where challenge meets skill. So, if you think about it, When you have a challenging situation, which we're always going to encounter, that is the access point into the flow. What does that mean? And kind of coach us on a challenging situation, maybe in snowboarding, maybe in IT and corporate, and how that could become an access point to flow. How

Joseph: 6:31

about conversations? Would you like to do conversations?

Kathie: 6:34

Yes.

Joseph: 6:35

Okay, so let's say we're having a conversation with a team member. Maybe prior to having the conversation, we might think of it as a difficult conversation, which is fine. Nothing wrong with you and nothing wrong with them. We're going to engage in a conversation. So in that moment, if we think of it as a difficult conversation, there may be particular thoughts appearing in mind that suggest conflict. We can release them. So the practice is, as I say, sometimes they appear to disappear. So that's the practice is let them be. And you get better at this with practice. If there's emotions arising, like strong emotions, let's say, maybe fear, that's okay. Instead of suppressing or repressing the emotions, or saying there's something wrong with you for experiencing fear, it's totally normal. And totally fine. Because Those emotions actually get released and they get transmuted. So, prior to conversation, that is one way we relax more so into the flow. Now, a person might then access the flow in that point, and then they go and start the conversation, which is during the flow. But let's just say it feels more relaxing, but they don't feel as flow based. That's totally fine. Then they take the step and they start the conversation. So, during the conversation, and depending on what it is they're talking about, they go back and forth. It is helpful to be aware of if we're stifling the emotions is a way that I like to describe it. If I'm holding on to the tension like this, you may notice this in the body. If the fists are clenched or as the person is communicating, maybe we're biasing over to one point of what they're sharing or a particular topic we would like to focus on. And it seems like we're forcing the conversation. At that point, we can relax that thought. Maybe we're judging ourselves. Maybe we're saying, you know, we're not communicating as clearly. They think this about us. We think that about them in an inharmonious way. We can relax those thoughts. I like to say it this way, allow myself to be, accept myself the way I am now, accept them the way they are now, and actually feel your body relaxing more and more so, and allowing whatever to arise to arise. What they say, what you say, why, why you listen to them. This can be an opportunity to access the flow as we listen and become more present to the moment. And even if they say things that may sound difficult, that's okay. As we accept them for what they say, as we accept ourselves, as the conversation is happening, we relax more into the flow. How do you relate to that?

Kathie: 9:23

That is great right there because, it's like you mentioned, where the challenge meets the skill and you relax into the flow, you don't identify. With the thoughts that are coming up and you practice releasing it. And I love how he talks about practicing and because another thing that Joseph teaches is there's no shame and condemnation. And when you let go of that and no shame and condemnation, you get to practice releasing it. Just practice. It's that's all it is, is. It's just simply practicing this on a regular basis and no shame and condemnation. So a lot of my content is about burnout and stress management. And this ties right in here because when we're practicing releasing the emotions, practicing releasing the judgments of even comparison, because conflict management is also something we teach in communication or just letting go. Of those judgments, because that helps reduce your stress. It helps reduce. burnout and even identifying burnout because Joseph, I find a lot of my clients don't even realize they're in burnout until it's too late. So if we can practice these skills that you're teaching right here, this could help with burnout. And I'd love to hear your thoughts on burnout and stress management using flow.

Joseph: 11:00

Yes, gladly. Happy to explore. So in my corporate career, there were moments where I was experiencing that burnout. Even when I had my it business, there were moments where I was going into burnout territory and I was feeling the burnout in 2017 was when I made flow a priority. And that was a result of reflecting back upon my life and saying, when was I say the most effective in communication and what I was doing? I was also having fun. It was easeful. It was, let's say, skill cultivating to a higher degree was a lot easier. All the benefits that we would like to have in the workplace were happening without the side effects. And it was while I was in flow. So that's when I made flow a priority. So in relation to what you mentioned is. It is helpful to be aware of if we're holding on to tension throughout the day, because if we continue to hold on to that tension throughout the day, and then we take it home and we're holding on to the tension and we do it again and again and again, what I found from personal experience is that led to burnout. So essentially we're not allowing the emotions to be released. Now, part of it could be the shame, the condemnation. Maybe a person thinks they should not allow their emotions to be released. They're thinking maybe if they allow their emotions to be released or if they feel their emotions, there's something wrong with them. So we talk about that as well. There's nothing wrong with and as you accept yourself, you allow the emotions to be released. So another thing too is. As we're going about things day to day, we can also bring awareness to what we experience as flow enhancer and flow restrictor. So maybe some of the tasks and projects that we're working on, it feels flow enhancing, which is actually, you could say, very therapeutic as well. Emotions are regulated. Clear thinking skill is cultivated generally, generally tends to be the things that we love to do. So maybe we can adjust our workday so we could do more of those things. And let's say there's particular areas where it feels flow restricting. Like it's really hard for us. to experience flow there? Well, you can, if you'd like access the flow through what we mentioned in there, but let's just say you genuinely don't want to do it. Then there might be an opportunity to maybe delegate that or adjust the way you go about doing it so that you could have more flow throughout the day. So these are some of the things if done. What happens is there is no burnout. There's actual genuine joy showing up each day. Because consider as well, if a person associates burnout to their work, I trust you have seen this as well, then when they wake up in the morning, there could be this dread of going to work, which then further contributes to that burnout. And this can compound in that way that we would not like it to be, let's say, the not flow based way, the force based way. But we can turn the tables, turn it into a different direction.

Kathie: 14:09

Yes, I love that. And so, you know, I can, I can tell you right now that my clients can understand the flow enhancer and the flow restrictor. And a lot of times what can happen is they have to, Go to work and they have all this dread about maybe something that's going on inside the workplace and you've actually coached me through this and I kind of want to talk about this because, um, when we know what a flow enhancer is. We, we know what that feels like, that's in the zone, that's a great place to be, but we have a flow restrictor and a flow restrictor can be something as simple as a way to me, and I want to hear your nuances on this, is to break it down into smaller pieces that are more manageable, that equal, that relate to the skills that we're trying to cultivate, because We've met the challenge and we have the skill and so breaking it down can look like a morning routine where you're sticking to that on a regular basis to help you get into flow, even though there may be something. In the background that's restricting it and that morning routine can be the thing that gets you past that restrictor of waking up and not going to work that day. So I'd like to hear your words on this because you've coached me through this as well.

Joseph: 15:47

Oh, certainly. Gladly. So. Yes. Having a morning routine for me has been really helpful. Now, some might prefer that, some might not. That's totally fine. If it's, let's say flow, that is the priority. We do what works for us, whatever is flow enhancing for us. So let's say an individual chooses to integrate a morning routine, which is what I have. It could include something like wake up. And if the intention is To have a flow based day, then right away, maybe an auto suggestion or something like that, an intention, setting the intention for flow. Now, as flow can be experienced at any moment, generally, we mentioned we can relax into the flow or do something we generally like to do, or end, or in combination, do something that is integrated physically, emotionally, mentally, like going to the gym. We, let's say automatically access to flow. One may consider setting up their morning routine to include those. So for me, it's in the moment I may read a statement of intention or an auto suggestion, and then go to the bathroom. And even when I brushed my teeth. If there's thoughts, if I'm, let's say, worrying about something, let them be. So that's an access point to the flow. Then after that, tall glass of water. Why I like a tall glass of water is it just hydrates the body and the brain and so forth. That's great. Then I go to the gym. Working out is a flow enhancer for me. And then I can feel. I'm already relaxed in the flow, deeper into the flow, I get lots of creative ideas. So knowing these signs, let's say that you are in the flow, like creative ideas, clarity, emotions regulated. After that, I come home, I have a healthy breakfast, I take a shower, do a 20 minute Vipassana style meditation, and I start my day. So that has been really helpful. A person may do something like this. Or at times I vary it. I do contrast showers at times, but not all the time. So that's the morning part. Anything you would like to explore with regards to the morning part?

Kathie: 17:49

Well, what I like about that is, is I always coach. Uh, find a routine that works for you and that you love and the way Joseph breaks down his morning routine or those, the steps that he takes and that can get you into flow. So if you're thinking you're going to have a bad day or something. Bad is coming up at work and sticking to that routine will help you get through that bad, but it also is a flow enhancer and you know what that flow feels like and you can go back to that. I like how he includes a meditation. So meditation can be anything from your workout at the gym To just sitting there relaxing for a few minutes, Joseph has a specific meditation he does, but that meditation could even be just a walk that you do on a regular basis and getting that routine in there to help you. Get into flow first of all and then know how it feels and then also something to fall back on when we do Possibly hit burnout or to manage our stress. And so Joseph's morning routine is there then he has his work routine and his evening routine. I have the same thing and I coach on this as well. So it helps you get into flow state, which is where challenge meets skill. And I want to talk about, um, releasing the emotions that come with it, because here's what can happen. We talked about this. You're wake up in the morning and you're dreading something that's going on in the day. How can we work on using flow to help us release the emotions that we're dreading with that day?

Joseph: 19:45

Yes, let's explore. So, let's say a person can be subconsciously holding on to their emotions. They may experience the body being tense. Maybe they're experiencing the emotion, but they're not feeling it to be released, let's say. They're not allowing it to be released. So the way I do it is breathe in, breathe out and be still and you can allow you can feel the emotions being released. You know what I'm talking about?

Kathie: 20:25

Absolutely. Yes. And I think that this is very beneficial, especially like, um, he mentioned subconscious. The subconscious mind, the subconscious mind takes everything literally. So if you wake up in the morning and say it's going to be a long day, that's what you're going to get. But if you release that feeling of thinking it's going to be a long day, And then reprogram the subconscious mind with a more powerful thought that's going something great's going to happen today because here's something that I do in my mornings. I'll wake up and if I have a feeling or sense or an emotion that has to do with dread, I get up and I think something good is going to happen today. So I start reprogramming I learned this from Joseph too, by the way. And so what I'll do is I'll listen to one of Joseph's podcasts or something like that to get me into flow state. And then I. hear a nuance that I needed to hear. And so I mentioned at the very beginning of this, that Joseph is my mentor and I will talk to him in my mind. And the craziest thing, his solutions come up in his, in his messages, whoever your mentor is, whoever you listen to on YouTube for your motivation, you're going to find little nuances that Trigger flow state and also help you release that emotion that you're dreading with the long day or whatever So what are your thoughts on this Joseph

Joseph: 22:05

one that pops up right now is the intimate relationship between thought and emotion so I Access the flow through both we could say I don't consider one better than another. What I mean by that is exactly like how you mentioned. You may think in a harmonious way, and then notice that your emotions are regulated throughout the day. They're flowing, as you had said, that intention via thought. And one can also Let's say experience more harmonious thoughts appearing in their mind as they allow their emotions to be released. So let's say if a person thinks a particular thought where let's say they shame and condemn themselves, then emotions may be experienced in a particular way where there's emotional turmoil or they think a thought about fear. This is a, a good example. They think of fear-based thought. Then they experience emotions in that way. We can say fear associated to what they're experiencing emotionally. Now, we could also say that about, let's say, emotions and thoughts. So thought, they think the thought emotions and then emotions. They, let's say. They experience fear, and then they may now start thinking more fear based thoughts. So we see there's an intimate relationship. So one way of doing things is not identifying with the thought, stilling the mind, be still, and then the emotions flow. They're regulated. The other way of doing it is how we mentioned earlier, breathing, allow the emotions to be released while not trying to forcefully change the thought. The thoughts naturally change as the emotions are released. So one way, another way, both ways. I actually recommend and teach both ways. How do you relate to that?

Kathie: 24:01

Yes. I love how he says the thoughts naturally change as the emotions are released. And this is so helpful because Number one, you're not suppressing your emotions. Number two, you're not repressing them. You're, you're feeling them and you're letting the natural process take place. I talk a lot about sports psychology on my channel and this is how an athlete lets go of thought that could really damage his game. So think about somebody who has all of this pressure on them to perform. It amazes me that Olympic athletes can train and train and train for years for one performance where they try to get a gold medal and they have to train their mind to stay in flow state. Whether It goes this way or that way. It's okay. And so it's releasing the thought. That goes with the emotion to stay in, in balance and in control and how he said that the relationship between the thought and the emotion. When you understand that you can control that mindset. So you can get in flow state where imagine the challenge of that Olympic athlete who's really got the big challenge, but they. They have the skill, they know they have the skill, that keeps them in confidence, and keeps them in flow state, but also releases all those emotions that go with it, because remember at the beginning how he mentioned there's comparison, there's, um, you know, dealing with what these feelings are about what's going on inside. Am I going to be good enough for this? And have I practiced this enough? And so that has a lot to do with Meeting challenge and skill is the practice and practicing emotional release. What do you think about that, Joseph?

Joseph: 26:07

I think very highly of that. And one of the reasons why we can say is by seeing it as a practice, let's say during the day to day activities during, let's say, athletic performance and outside of it ongoing, it becomes easier and easier. with emotions, let's say, maybe in the earlier stages of practicing this, a person might still be subconsciously shaming and condemning themselves or saying that they shouldn't experience emotions this way. As they release the emotions, allow them to be released, those beliefs that suggest that there's a problem with the emotions are also released. And what happens is emotional release. becomes easier and easier and joyous. Notice how at times you feel better after crying or emotional release. Clarity is there. So as they're practicing this with the day to day activities, whatever it may be, friends, when they're out and about, snowboarding, and also within the workplace, they get better and better at doing that. As they less and less identify with those thoughts, because they transcend those thoughts. So the way I teach it is, you are not thoughts of limitation. You cannot be thoughts of limitation. You transcend the limitations, but then I mean, you, the fact that you exist is beyond a thought of limitation, so you can choose to no longer identify with it bit by bit by bit, and it gets easier and easier, and I would personally also recommend not trying to rush it and say if I didn't do it perfectly or according to a standard by the end of the day or the end of the week. Now that I discovered this information that it's not working. Or I'm not doing it as well as maybe this other person or whatever. I recommend actually seeing the benefits and then consistently practicing it again and again and again. And it does get easier and easier and easier. And you find that you spontaneously get into the flow, even in areas, for example, where they might have been very chaotic. And maybe the person thought they couldn't get into the flow there. They all of a sudden access to flow there. That's why I made flow a priority in 2017. And till this day, I've been applying this and I experience more flow more and more and more so now when I say flow, there's different styles of flow. So it's not always, uh, in the zone snowboarding kind of flow. There's this kind of flow, conversational flow. There's flow. While I work out, while I'm talking with people, there are different kinds of flow, yet what is experienced is one of the benefits of one of the neurotransmitters that is released while you're in flow, which is anandamide. Anandamide is named after the Sanskrit word Ananda, which means bliss. When the bliss molecule is released, when we experienced a bliss molecule, we experienced what is called reconciliation. Between divergent thinking and convergent thinking. So divergent thinking is seeing things from many different perspectives, which can be very helpful. But let's say a person may overthink in that way, in a way that they feel that there's a lot of confusion in mind. So divergent thinking is helpful, yet it can be reconciled in the moment related to the experience. So we may pull a divergent viewpoint into. the present moment without, let's say, overthinking as applicable. Now, convergent thinking is going with well established solutions. So for example, when we worked in corporate, we had well established solutions that would work. So at times we would do that. And at times it was helpful to think divergently, to revamp the system, for example. So is one way better than another? No, actually, sometimes you do this, sometimes you do that. But how do you know when? to do this and when to do that. Well, that happens naturally while you're in flow. Anandamide actually facilitates what I call lateral being, physical, emotional, mental integration, reconciliation between the two while you're in flow. You see that?

Kathie: 30:12

Yes. Would you say that that's, um, being in touch with your intuition?

Joseph: 30:18

Yes, as a matter of fact, while you're in flow, intuition is crystal clear. You're able to listen to your intuition because you know it's distinct from the mental chatter of this versus that or confusion, which arises from those beliefs, which if not identified with the dichotomous beliefs, the beliefs of limitation, they just dissolve. Mind becomes purified.

Kathie: 30:42

Yes. And I, I, I like that. So I wanna go back to the sports psychology because what happens is they release the identification of it should be this way or the overthinking, or, and, and just listen to their intuition.'cause I can tell you that feels so much better than listening to all the other crazy things that are, might be going on in your mind. And it will help you establish that. Bliss feeling because that's what he's talking about. The, uh, neurochemical anendamide. Releases that bliss feeling, the feeling of bliss, which is flow and it feels good. So as we started this episode, we talked about having a hobby to find flow. And before we close, I want to talk about how that hobby and finding flow inside that hobby can translate into the workplace or public speaking or communicating with others, how once we understand that feeling and. What that feels like it's easier to practice finding that in the real world. So how would you suggest going about that? And and why does a hobby? Make it feel easy to find flow.

Joseph: 32:07

Great questions. So, yes, generally, we're going to find flow, maybe not with everybody. I'm like that, let's say, and many that I've worked with. We genuinely, genuinely and generally, let's say, find flow in doing things that we love to do, such as hobbies, particular activities. snowboarding. It may be this for one person. It may be something else. There are particular. things that we're very interested in that we generally tend to find flow in that area. So that way we can, we can say, apply that as a way of understanding ourselves. So not only can we have fun doing that because we have fun doing it, we genuinely want to do it. We can also be intentional about it. And by that I mean, we can say, okay, now that I'm doing this, I can, I can note. You can do it mentally. You can even take some notes if you'd like, make a study out of it in a fun way. You can notice when you access the flow. Like for example, in snowboarding, I noticed that after three or four runs, I'm deeper into the flow. I could say universally. So I'm still pretty flow based, let's say. Because I stay in my flow, but I notice that I'm even more into the flow after four or five runs. So that's an interesting thing. I also notice at particular times of day, I happen to be more in the flow. So that's interesting as well. What I ate prior, etc. So and even let's say particular runs, particular slopes, for whatever the reason may be. And those are, those are some interesting observations because then I know if I put that criteria in place, then it's instant flow. It's like, okay, I just. ensure that this criteria is there. It's a given flow happens. Now, another thing that I do is qualitative indicator of that feeling of prior to being in flow state. And then when you're in flow state, and then even the flow after glow, we could say after you're in flow and Knowing distinctively what that feels like, you develop a palette for it. You know what I'm talking about?

Kathie: 34:20

Oh yeah, for sure. And I've learned that from you. And then, and you, you want to get into that and it just feels good. Yes. Yes.

Joseph: 34:29

You develop a palette for it, like a wine connoisseur. So what happens then is you develop this flow palette for knowing when you're in flow, the different flavors of flow. You learn how to access that flow. You know, when you're out of the flow and when you're out of the flow, that's okay. You can get back into the flow if you would like a lot easier because you haven't discovered many access points into the flow and you can tune yourself into the flow. You can also tune yourself into the flow without doing an activity as well, yet you are also able to do it more so everywhere because you have not forgotten the flow, you know. What it feels like physically, you know, what body is like while in flow, it's for me, looser body language, my facial expressions are looser, let's say authentic style might not be like another person in flow, your style, whatever your style is, you know, like some people, for example, their style of flow, they're not as expressive, but some when they're in their flow, they're more expressive is one way better than another, it doesn't matter, it's the what is authentic to you, your body, you know, When your body's in flow, same with emotion. So you can feel the anandamide release. You, there's also a whole bunch of other neurotransmitters that are released as well. You could feel it and emotions are regulated. Let's say not too extreme on this side or that side. There may be bursts of excitement though, which is interesting and bursts of happiness, maybe even tears of joy and so forth. So you have emotional regulation. Emotions are flowing, transmutation, even if let's say Uh, this is great for athletes if they're challenged by what the opponent did, let's say, and they feel like strong emotions arising rather than, let's say, the, the burning desire to win suppressed or repressed, they're actually transmuting it into the performance. So they're aware of what that is like, and they're able to do that through understanding their emotions while they're in flow. Also thoughts while in flow. So while in flow, there may be no thoughts in mind, or so it appears that way. No thoughts. It's just you in the zone. But if there is thoughts, I tend to find it to be creative thoughts. As a matter of fact, while snowboarding on my lifts, I had taken notes to put into my videos. So those are some indicators that you can feel when you're in flow and Not only can you get better at that feeling, but as mentioned, the different styles of flow, and because you consistently, let's say, stay in the flow and you access the flow, you appreciate the flow, you know when you're out of it, and you know what that feels like, and again, no shame and condemnation, but then you know how to calibrate back into it.

Kathie: 37:26

Yes, and I, I love that calibration and the different levels of flow, um, because That's going to help you in a stressful situation. It's going to help you find flow when you're feeling burnt out or you're having a difficult conversation. I can tell you this and it gets better with practice. And I also love to remind myself and to remind others that there's no shame and condemnation depending on where you are in the flow state, what, what you're trying to accomplish. Before we go, I want to touch on autotelic because that's a, that's something that happens when we're in flow state. We've kind of touched on it by the fact that we get in touch with our intuition. When we're in flow, the anandamide is released, which means that we're feeling bliss. Which is definitely an indicator that you're in touch with your intuition. So how I, I love your articulation of being autotelic. So let's

Joseph: 38:33

explore. Yes. So what I had found, and he had mentioned this in that book flow, Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, where he mentions challenge meets skill. He says a person eventually becomes autotelic. So he's, the way he describes it. is a little different than how I describe it. I describe it this way from my experience. It's, we could say bliss for no reason, bliss for no reason. So just as we can experience bliss flow while doing the things we love to do, we may start to being autotelic. We start to more accurately put experience bliss for no reason. So you experience bliss here. You experience bliss there. And you find that you don't care, more specifically, you don't worry, you don't concern about the end result. You still value, let's say, the end result, the destination, but you're not worried about it. Because what you're doing right now, you're experiencing bliss. So, let's use snowboarding as an example. You might have a goal of how much you would like to progress. And you know what that looks like, but you're not worried about it. Autotelic, the Autotelic shows up because they genuinely love to snowboard. And we could say that goes on the slopes again and again, does a run again and again, and has, is experiencing bliss in that moment. And then you can say it's not worried about the goal. They inevitably get to the goal, but they're not doing it. Let's say only for that end result. They're genuinely experiencing bliss in the moment during the runs. Now, the autotelic, they're autotelic there. But what I've also found is you become autotelic in the different areas of your life. So, for example, talk about brushing your teeth, it's considerably easier to experience flow while brushing your teeth, while you're watering the plants, while you're going for a walk, you experience bliss for no reason. And why I say for no reason, sometimes people ask me, like, why do you experience bliss doing this? I don't know. What I do say is, okay, the bliss is not conditional. I have acknowledged that existence is bliss. So the auto talic, say, is acknowledging the fact that they exist is bliss. They have come to that realization, let's say. And it's actually supported now by the neurology, the physiological ways, physical, emotional, mental, it's supported that spiritual truth of you are bliss is supported because it's everything has been, let's say, to a higher degree, been actualized into the body that way, and they experience bliss for no reason. Which is wonderful. Have you been experiencing that?

Kathie: 41:23

Oh, yes, for sure. And, you know, um, Joseph also coaches entrepreneurs and that's pretty much what we work on when I talk to him and do my coaching and And this also relates to the Olympic champion and how they get the gold medal or don't get the gold medal So Joseph coaches. It's great if it happens And it's great if it doesn't. And so that means the sweet spot is in the middle. You don't, and I just talked about this not too long ago. You don't expect to get it and you don't expect to not get it because it's kind of an oxymoron, but at the same time, it's very, very beneficial to stay in flow state, you stay in the bliss mode. You're not like, I'm going to win this. snowboarding down the hill, or I'm going to beat my personal best if it happens, great. And if it doesn't, great. So before we end, let's just touch on that just to, yes,

Joseph: 42:23

gladly. And let's use conversations as an example as well. So if the conversation goes this way, great. If it goes that way, great. And what that that practice of accepting if it goes this way, great goes that way, great. And it doesn't change the fact that you are bliss, let's say that there's nothing wrong with you. Let's say if it goes this way or that way. What interestingly ends up happening is the conversation tends to go in a harmonious way and the individual is less likely to. Avoid having conversations because they are not conditioning the conversation. They're not saying, let's say, if the conversation goes this way, then I will feel humiliated. We know that that is through a belief lens that they're experiencing that if they experience it. That's released and then they have the conversation. So what we see in organizations is. Leaders tend to continuously approach appropriately the members of the team, team members do it as well. They continue to, let's say in a childlike way, have conversations with each other. And even if it was, if it didn't go their way or whatever, that doesn't mean that they stop now having that conversation. They continuously engage in conversation because the conditions have been removed. So then practically speaking, what happens is The messages are being communicated. Everything is being communicated more effectively, more often at an appropriate level because the conditions have been removed because the individual may think that if a condition is met, then great, which we could say authentically, we would like that condition to be met. But if we remove the condition that if it needs to be met in order for it to be great, we would And if this happens, then it's not great, then they're not afraid to have that conversation. And as they're not afraid to have the conversation, as they're in flow, the conversation naturally harmonizes with the person. So then they, they tend to have more of those kinds of conversations. If it's more, I don't know if it's more or less, but let's say the authentic amount, because that condition has been met. So then statistically, we have seen, and I, as you mentioned, I work with entrepreneurs. Statistically, we see, for example, in sales, the numbers go up. Statistically, we see the team members and those that apply this have conversations with people. They're not afraid to have conversations with people in office environments. They're not afraid because those conditions have. So by removing that, the paradox is reconciled into the appropriate amount of flow based conversations. How do you relate?

Kathie: 45:14

Yes, yes, and yes, it's important that the leaders are approachable and that the conversation is not judged like going this way or going that way. It has to do that. And what happens when that is open and flow is a priority in the workplace? You're going to have more innovation.

Joseph: 45:35

You're

Kathie: 45:35

going to have more business. You're going to have more sales. And it just leads to bigger and bigger things as opposed to a, a company where they're falling back on the propaganda on bureaucracy, on the leaders, not being approachable, those types of things will. What do we start with that will restrict your flow and it will cause stress with your team and cause burnout? Yes,

Joseph: 46:05

and you know what happens then is the entire workplace gets transformed and everyone experiences flow more So we could say flow is encouraged more so in this way So not only do the results happen but the as a collective within the group In the organization what I have seen I trust you've seen it as well. Is that there is No, or reducing workplace stress and frustration, as you had mentioned, it's, it, it show, it's less and less and less and less and less because no one's energy or emotions is being stifled. And as you mentioned, the leaders, they say, go about it from an unbiased perspective. Let's explore this idea. Let's explore any ideas welcome because they don't take it personally and they don't try to force it to go this way or that way. And the other person also feels that. They're listened to and valued and not trying to go this way or that way and what happens actually is the authentic way the harmony Way, which it could be this way. It could be what the leader thought it could be what the individual thought It could be a variation of it or it could be something radically different Spaces through being this way, let's say created, or it's acknowledged to be there for the solution to arise.

Kathie: 47:28

Wow, that, that right there, that little segment, I'm going to have to, like, take notes and relisten to because that's what happened with me at the old workplace that I was at. And. It was a flow restrictor. I identified that and I worked with Joseph on this. And then it just opened up and I've done research on workplaces that actually, um, support this innovation. And one of them that's pretty popular is how Henry Ford ran his plant when he was, you know, back when All right. you Ford was even starting out. He would go down to the warehouse and he would visit with the employees. They would tell him how things were working. Here's where everything comes together is because he he's he couldn't be everywhere. But when he was approachable and he was. easily talk to you, he found out ways to build the cars even better. Or he saw somebody doing something really good and he, he recognized that and rewarded that. And that's a whole nother topic for another day, but I love how we're closing here because this is going to help with innovation. It's going to help everybody or company feel better and more engagement with your team and just build the business even more. When you put flow as a priority and take care of that in general. So before we go, I want Joseph to tell you where you can find him a little bit about his channel and, and how, how to work with him.

Joseph: 49:04

Yes. So flow based prosperity. If you're interested is available at www.onlinetrainingforentrepreneurs.com that is our mastermind. My YouTube channel you'll link to in the description or within a resource section is where I talk about over the years, the conversation has adjusted. It was initially started to talk about my experiences in entrepreneurship. And share my insights and perspectives of applying the various business books and various books that have been helpful for me in personal development and in business. And then we started talking more about flow as I made flow a priority. So it's all fused together like that. We have conversations about flow with respect to relationship. We talk about emotional release and clear thinking and harmonious relationships with people in personal life and business life. It's a lot of fun. Yes. You'll link to it, right?

Kathie: 50:02

Oh, yes, for sure. I will definitely have a link to that in the show notes and description below and I will um also I in every episode that I do I include a blog post that includes bonus resources and more and um Also joseph forgot to mention that on online entrepreneurs. com He has a course training for

Joseph: 50:27

entrepreneurs

Kathie: 50:28

Yes, online training for entrepreneurs. He has courses in there on subconscious mind, on mind mapping, on, um, uh, entrepreneurship, and he's just started a new channel on entrepreneurship and has a really good video as his first video. I highly recommend that if you're in, looking at entrepreneurship. So I will have links to all of that in the show notes and description below. And Joseph, is there anything else you'd like to add?

Joseph: 50:58

That sounds great to me. It was a wonderful conversation. Thank you very much for inviting me to your show. I appreciate you very much, Kathie thank

Kathie: 51:05

you for being here. And I appreciate you and thanks for the changes you're making in all of our lives. I can tell you it's It's absolutely profound and wonderful. So with that, that's the end of the episode today. I trust that you found it helpful and until next time, I will see you next time. Peace out and namaste.